Whether you know much about filmmaking or not, you have to agree that it’s difficult work. There is so much that goes into just one shot, it can be daunting and intimidating to even think about.
Now imagine you’re in dark tunnels with real skeletons at your feet.
During Power MorphiCon weekend I interviewed As Above, So Below writer/director John Erick Dowdle and writer Drew Dowdle, the brothers behind the newest horror movie from Legendary and Universal Pictures. Filmed inside the actual catacombs beneath Paris, the Dowdles chatted with me about shooting a satanic horror movie while almost losing their sanity in the dark, macabre tunnels full of human remains.
It was extremely difficult to imagine as I sat inside the well-lit lobby of the Westin in sunny, 80-degree Pasadena, on my way to a Power Rangers convention.
So I was impressed that you shot it in the actual catacombs. Why was it important for you guys to remain so authentic?
John Erick: When you build something, you just feel, like, it never feels as real as the real thing. Anytime you give someone the real thing, it just adds such depth to the texture of the movie. And you feel the performances. The performances, you can tell seeing this movie, you can tell the actors aren’t stepping off set between takes, sipping a latte and texting their friends. They’re in it, you know, spending ten hours six stories under the ground every day. You can see it in their faces. Like, all of us [became] half-crazy as a result of being down there so much. And it shows! You feel the presence of that space. On our first location scout, we went underground and we all felt, “Oh my god, this is terrifying down here.” And to try to build that and recreate that on set, and be all like, “Okay, everyone, act scared!” It wouldn’t have worked the same way. When you go down there, you feel your chest get tight, your breathing gets shallow, the air is still, and the sound is really weird and tweaky. You just couldn’t fake that.
Drew: When we were talking about doing the movie initially too, it was one of those [conversations]. It was like, if we’re not shooting in the real location, then we almost didn’t think it was worth making the movie! [laughs] It is such a specific place in the world. And if you’re not shooting the real thing, we knew that would be obviously the number one question coming home to. “Is this in the real place?” It has to be. [Questions like] “Do you build some of it? Go somewhere that’s maybe easier to shoot in Paris that might look like this?” To us, none of those were options that were interesting alternative.
Well, you guys succeeded because it came out wonderful.
John Erick: Thanks so much! I really appreciate that.
There is a bit of a video game aesthetic in the movie. I don’t know if that was intentional or not. Like, I was watching the film and it kind of came off like a dungeon crawler in a very literal sense. Were video games at all a point of reference in the making of the film?
John Erick: You know, we didn’t shy away from that, but we didn’t consider that like a reference. And yet we knew that early on in that first sequence when she’s going in that cave, we saw that were like, “Okay, it sorta feels like a first-person shooter,” we thought that was pretty cool. We really wanted to have a camera on Scarlet that was just sort of attached to her clothing, but we realized we wanted to see her a little bit too. Even if it’s just the side of her face, even just a little something so [she’s] not totally disembodied. So we sorta went with that aesthetic early on and it really felt effective. So it was pretty cool. It was fun to play with.
Found footage is a difficult genre. For this film it felt necessary, but it is a hard genre. Did you have any hesitations about doing it in this style?
John: We talked about it for like two minutes, and were like, “You know what, this fits this movie.” There’s something to it, about shooting in the catacombs. If you tried to shoot traditional, you know, light and everything in one direction of the room, and then shoot that out, and then switch out all the lights [for the other side], like that would be a nightmare down there. We were like, let’s go really guerilla. Let’s shoot it like you were if you were doing this real. Let’s light the whole thing with the actor’s headlamps. There’s a scene near the end of the movie where they’re standing around the hole, that whole scene was lit literally from Scarlet, the camera from Scarlet’s hand.
Oh, wow.
John Erick: There’s no other light. We had the actors lighting, I’d say 90% of the movie. And probably 30% of the movie was shot by the actors! [laughs] We really went for like, “Let’s see what kind of happy accidents happen. Let’s try not to over-produce it.” And it really ended up, I think, adding to the realness of the movie. And frankly, it was a lot of fun to shoot that way.
Drew: I’d say too, the origin of this particular character was always kind of in a found footage world. We always had an idea that, you know, doing a female archaeologist, kind of one-part Indiana Jones character in a found footage world would be a really interesting movie. So when we conceptualized this initially, it was always kind of in a found footage set. So it never really occurred to us, frankly, to not do it that way in this setting.
I picked up on the Indiana Jones similarities, to me she was kind of like Ellen Ripley and Indiana Jones, I thought it was fantastic. But you guys enjoy doing terror in small spaces. You did Devil and Quarantine, and now As Above, So Below. So, are you guys claustrophobic like Benji? (Note: Benji is a character in As Above, So Below and he suffers from claustrophobia.)
[both laugh]
John Erick: It’s actually funny, a little bit. I gotta say, the first time we did a location scout of the real catacombs, we crawled through a hole about the size of like a medicine ball, we crawled through that, and we’re like in a tunnel we had to crawl through on all fours and then there was water and I never really considered [it]. I’m finding all sorts of new fears as a result of this job. [laughs]
But like, I never considered myself claustrophobic, but there was a point at which, literally I was having a hard time breathing, like I’m freaking out! Like I’m genuinely terrified! And I had this moment, that if I can’t hack this, they’re gonna have to replace me. And that first location scout they were like, okay, let’s keep going until it feels normal and natural. So we did that first location scout for five hours underground, going deeper and deeper, and one of the people on our team totally lost their mind. They had a total breakdown. So, it was something! It was something down there.
Drew: Yeah, our first scout was actually through that hole on the train tracks that they go through in the movie, was where we entered. On the other side of the hole in reality was about fifty yards of tunnel that’s like, elbows and knees, army style crawling before you can get into a space where you can actually stand up. So for me I’m not very claustrophobic, what I found terrifying personally was the idea that, I’m more of a map person, like I really need to know where I am on the grid, and once you make about three turns in there your sense of direction is gone. And you have no idea which way is out. So not knowing where the exit is and if our guide dropped dead of a heart attack or something, you know, that fear was much more palpable for me than the claustrophobia.
Well, I’m very happy you guys survived.
[both laugh]
The title, “As Above, So Below“, it refers to confronting your inner demons. As storytellers, why is that attractive?
John Erick: Well, you know, I think going back a little bit to the confined spaces, we always find something terrible happens, it triggers that flight or fight response. If you take flight out of it, the confined spaces take flight out of the equation. It forces characters to face something that terrifies them. You know, frankly, I feel personally in my twenties, like there were so many things that scared me I backed away from, there were plenty of them, and in my late twenties, I’m like, I gotta start hitting these things more head-on. And in doing so, literally every aspect of my life changed.
For me that’s been something personally that’s really, I don’t know, made a big difference. I remember a friend of mine, had a kind of metaphor: gotta face life like a boxer, apparently a boxer, like if you lean away, that’s when you get clobbered as a boxer. But if you lean in to the fear, put your face like right into the fear, that is how you box. That’s how you have to fight. In our movies, going through that journey with our characters seeing, you know, if you can’t run away from your fears, you have to face it, and you do, are you better with yourself? How did that change you?
One last thing. Scarlet was a fascinating character. Do you think we’ve seen the last of her?
John Erick: We hope not! We’ll tell you August 31st!
[everyone, including me, laughs]
Drew: Yeah, we’d love to continue these stories. She’s not only a fun character, but such a terrific actress and really fun to work with. Get the band back together, if the audiences want it.
From Legendary and Universal Pictures, As Above, So Below is in theaters now. Be sure to head here for our review.